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thank you

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[Music]

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foreign

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news was the Senate hearings with Dr

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Kirkpatrick we met him for the first

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time what are your shots I heard that

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you loved it you were absolutely floored

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[Laughter]

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okay I I got the impression that Dr

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Kirkpatrick really didn't really want to

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be there I uh yeah

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I had the very strong impression that he

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was begrudgingly giving evidence and

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there's

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uh he's in a he's in a dual Dilemma on

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the one hand he has to be held

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accountable by public officials and

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congressmen and Senators but um the the

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simple fact is he obviously doesn't like

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it he he didn't want to be there he

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wanted to be somewhere else and I think

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it's great I mean I think one of the

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things I admire about America is that it

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holds your it holds your executive arm

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of government to account there's a um

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there's a really good uh oversight role

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by the Congress and also by the um the

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government Accounting Office the GAO and

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all of the various Sportsmen and

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oversight roles it's it's actually

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really important but in terms of public

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officials I had the really strong sense

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that he didn't want to be there yeah and

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frankly I I I I thought that at best his

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assertion that there is no credible

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evidence to suggest a possible non-human

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intelligence might be behind the

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phenomenon uh was it best disingenuous

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because um I know I know for a simple

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fact that Dr Kirkpatrick has been

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advised otherwise by highly critical

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Witnesses before the Congress yeah so

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you know that's right well not so much

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before the Congress he's been told this

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before but some of those Witnesses have

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gone on to give evidence before Congress

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yes so so now you know with those

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whistleblowers Having You Know spoken to

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Kirkpatrick

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and to him still keeping to that line

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that very familiar Air Force line that

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we've just come to love so much from

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Blue Book no evidence of

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extraterrestrial origin

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um why do you think he keeps up that

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line if he has heard from these people

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do you think he just can't verify their

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claims or what's your take on that

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well extraterrestrial is a particular

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word uh it implies that what we're

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talking about is a life form an

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alternative intelligence to the human

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race which lives on another planet or in

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another galaxy or another part of our

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universe maybe that's not the

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explanation I mean uh how put off Dr Hal

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putoff's written a lovely paper where he

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uses the term Ultra terrestrials to try

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and Encompass all of these descriptions

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all of the possible explanations I mean

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I'm in no doubt whatsoever that what

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we're talking about is something that is

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intelligent the is another life form of

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some kind I'm absolutely no doubt about

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that and the big question though is is

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it from this planet is it crypto

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terrestrial has it been here all along

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is it living underwater or whatever is

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it from another planet in our universe

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we don't know or alternatively is it

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from some Dimension that we're not yet

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comprehensive of has it come through a

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wormhole you know I mean there's any

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number of explanations but um what what

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I find amusing is there is this weird

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game being played at the moment where

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you have a public official in the form

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of Dr Kirkpatrick who frankly I mean I

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I mean why do we tie ourselves in not

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worrying about what he said frankly I'm

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not I'm not doing that yeah

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what he represents there is

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um he represents the public face of a

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determined cardra of officials in the

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U.S defense department who frankly don't

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want to have to admit that they're

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hiding stuff uh and I think they're

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worried about the consequences of

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admissions let's let's give it a noble

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cause excuse let's say that during the

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Cold War they did become of some aware

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of something let's say as the general

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told Tom de long there was a life form

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uh and and basically they were worried

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about what might happen during the Cold

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War and so they classified it and they

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classified whatever technology or

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knowledge was derived from that that

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intelligent contact I wouldn't blame

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them I mean I frankly if I was a

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military official or an intelligence

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official I'd do exactly the same thing

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um you know one of the the great things

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about America is for all your faults

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you're still a functioning democracy

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kind of

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um we're a teetering at this point yeah

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no I mean you know you've got

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accountability controls to stop

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governments from behaving in an

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authoritarian way and every now and then

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that works but you know you've got

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crazies like Putin and Z over in China

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and you've also got people like North

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Korea and Iran who are not very friendly

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to the rest of the western world if you

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like and um they they view us with

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hostility and so the US quite reasonably

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has to be putting National Security

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priorities first and that's exactly what

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I would do so let's say there's a noble

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cause argument that's one plausible

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explanation for what we're talking about

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here

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another possible explanation and

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I find this hard to reconcile with my

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understanding of some of the people in

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the intelligence community that I've

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spoken with another possible explanation

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is that these people are trying to

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conceal their own crimes maybe this has

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been illegally withheld from the

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oversight of the Congress and that's

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certainly the um

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that's certainly the intention of the

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ndaa the National Defense authorization

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act Parts which essentially mandate that

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you know incredible I mean this is the

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thing Sean that amazes me about this

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whole story amazing language

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you've got the most incredible language

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set out in the ndaa those defense laws

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that were passed in late December which

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Congress demanding by legislation that

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any public official or or anybody with

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any knowledge at all any any potential

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whistleblower or Witness

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can come forward with impunity and be

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protected from breaching National

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Security classification Oaths or ndas if

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there is evidence to show that there has

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been concealment improper or illegal

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concealment of

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a crash retrieval

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sure but I mean my fear is

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it's amazing

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and what we see right now is DoD doing

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everything they can to make that a

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complicated process though they're still

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not making the public uh website the

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public facing website available they

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haven't approved it yet

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uh so what's neat about it though

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Senator gillibrand uh is now directing

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people directly to her office

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she just said recently that people can

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call her directly so that's good but the

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dod needs to play ball otherwise we're

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just

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going in a circle

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there is a story behind that that I can

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tell you sure all right there are

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whistleblower Witnesses who have gone

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direct to the Congress and circumvented

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Dr Sean Kirkpatrick's office because

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they don't trust Dr Kirkpatrick because

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what he has done by saying what he said

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publicly to the Congress is apprehended

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by us he's indicated an unwillingness to

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take the issue seriously I think you

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should really be questioning whether he

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should stay on the job or not

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um the bottom line is there are a lot of

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senators and Congressional

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Representatives

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who have heard differently inside secure

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Skiffs in the Congress from what Dr

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Kirkpatrick is representing to the

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Congress in public hearing Congress has

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heard evidence from Witnesses about the

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program

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about aliens yeah now

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Sean it's it's happening this is

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happening while you and I are talking

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you know there are people coming forward

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to your great congress with evidence of

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a secret that has been concealed from

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the world

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this is happening

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and I just absorb mentousness of that

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and I was listening it's almost

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impossible for us isn't it yeah as I was

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driving here I was um I was listening to

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Joe Rogan's interview with my friend

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James Fox and um James was talking about

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the Brazilian Virginia case and uh it's

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it's really interesting because um

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he quite rightly presents a huge amount

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of evidence a huge body of evidence at

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least I think of very high case that

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something anomalous was recovered from

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Virginia in Brazil

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and the U.S government illegally entered

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Brazil and took whatever it was back to

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the United States

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now I think we're getting to a a stage

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where the levels of proof the burdens of

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proof are such

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that it's incumbent on the Pentagon and

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the intelligence Community

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to rebut the overwhelming weight of

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evidence that suggests they're holding

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on to something now

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I know I'm I'm talking to people in the

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Congress I know that evidence has been

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given and I don't know whether that

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evidence is correct or not but I do know

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that Witnesses under oath have testified

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about the program and that is a secret

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crash retrieval reverse engineering

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program in the U.S government

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well now

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um I don't know a lot of the details are

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freaking get crazy

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I know it's amazing I mean no one can

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get so this would play out Ross like

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everyone always talks about well how's

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the world going to react to disclosure

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what's post-disclosure going to be like

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no one

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knows what that's going to be like it's

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it's gonna be

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um

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I think my friend and colleague Bryce

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zabel wrote a great book right sorry

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yeah that's a good book after disclosure

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with um Richard Dolan and um it tries to

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comprehensively analyze what what the

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consequences would be of disclosure but

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frankly mate if anybody thinks that an

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official of the US government or the U.S

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executive arm of government Joe Biden or

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somebody else is going to walk to a

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lectern and say ladies and gentlemen

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let me tell you we are not alone I don't

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think that's gonna happen they're going

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to be directed yeah they're going to be

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direct kicking and screaming and um no

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I'm I'm

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becoming aware of the magnitude of what

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has been concealed and believe me it's

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I'm it's unrolling it's unraveling

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people are giving evidence the big

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question in my mind is not

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um it's not what's the truth you know is

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it or isn't it nhi non-human

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intelligence a big question is are the

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public going to be told this

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um you know I really uh I'm sick to

280
00:12:46,790 --> 00:12:43,920
death I really am I'm sick to death of

281
00:12:48,110 --> 00:12:46,800
ufology eating itself and assuming I

282
00:12:50,150 --> 00:12:48,120
know if we've

283
00:12:52,850 --> 00:12:50,160
cannibalistic activity you get these

284
00:12:55,670 --> 00:12:52,860
people who have no understanding of the

285
00:12:58,670 --> 00:12:55,680
burdens that reporters like myself are

286
00:13:00,850 --> 00:12:58,680
under in terms of obligations to sources

287
00:13:02,690 --> 00:13:00,860
and they make these smart ass

288
00:13:04,550 --> 00:13:02,700
fuck-witted comments where they

289
00:13:05,870 --> 00:13:04,560
basically say ah

290
00:13:07,970 --> 00:13:05,880
um you know

291
00:13:10,150 --> 00:13:07,980
people should just put up or shut up you

292
00:13:12,230 --> 00:13:10,160
know they should just breach their

293
00:13:13,850 --> 00:13:12,240
confidentiality to sources and and

294
00:13:16,250 --> 00:13:13,860
publish what they have

295
00:13:17,810 --> 00:13:16,260
they have no understanding of what these

296
00:13:18,889 --> 00:13:17,820
poor people are risking by coming

297
00:13:22,190 --> 00:13:18,899
forward

298
00:13:23,870 --> 00:13:22,200
and yes there are good people I can tell

299
00:13:25,550 --> 00:13:23,880
you not everybody in the intelligence

300
00:13:26,870 --> 00:13:25,560
Community is a villain not everybody in

301
00:13:29,150 --> 00:13:26,880
the defense department is a villain

302
00:13:30,949 --> 00:13:29,160
you've got some great people I've had my

303
00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:30,959
back watched by people in your military

304
00:13:35,150 --> 00:13:33,120
in places like Iraq and Afghanistan and

305
00:13:37,069 --> 00:13:35,160
they've I put my life in their hands

306
00:13:38,990 --> 00:13:37,079
they're good people

307
00:13:40,730 --> 00:13:39,000
and there's a lot of good people out

308
00:13:41,690 --> 00:13:40,740
there who think it's time the public was

309
00:13:43,790 --> 00:13:41,700
told

310
00:13:46,190 --> 00:13:43,800
and I don't know how long it's going to

311
00:13:48,410 --> 00:13:46,200
take but it's going to happen

312
00:13:51,350 --> 00:13:48,420
do you think uh it would be more of a

313
00:13:53,389 --> 00:13:51,360
leak type of situation or enough maybe

314
00:13:56,150 --> 00:13:53,399
evidence goes public to the point of

315
00:14:00,650 --> 00:13:56,160
where pressure is so great that the

316
00:14:04,970 --> 00:14:02,930
that's a hard question

317
00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:04,980
we need to know why they're sitting on

318
00:14:09,829 --> 00:14:07,680
it I mean I I often ask people who I'm

319
00:14:12,829 --> 00:14:09,839
talking to who have direct knowledge of

320
00:14:13,790 --> 00:14:12,839
the program and I say why why why the

321
00:14:16,490 --> 00:14:13,800
secrecy

322
00:14:18,310 --> 00:14:16,500
and the primary reason seems to be that

323
00:14:20,449 --> 00:14:18,320
they've become aware of awesome

324
00:14:22,009 --> 00:14:20,459
Technologies behind what they've

325
00:14:23,930 --> 00:14:22,019
recovered and they're still trying to

326
00:14:26,150 --> 00:14:23,940
understand them and they're worried

327
00:14:27,829 --> 00:14:26,160
because they're essentially in a I can't

328
00:14:30,110 --> 00:14:27,839
have an arms race I suppose with the

329
00:14:32,509 --> 00:14:30,120
Russians and the Chinese and I get that

330
00:14:34,850 --> 00:14:32,519
I really do I mean I really truly

331
00:14:35,810 --> 00:14:34,860
believe we shouldn't know how these

332
00:14:40,810 --> 00:14:35,820
things work

333
00:14:45,650 --> 00:14:43,610
or for a no for a nuclear weapon I mean

334
00:14:49,610 --> 00:14:45,660
the department of energy quite rightly

335
00:14:51,829 --> 00:14:49,620
in the 1940s it was decided that the the

336
00:14:53,930 --> 00:14:51,839
um instructions for how to build a

337
00:14:56,449 --> 00:14:53,940
nuclear bomb they should not be public

338
00:14:58,370 --> 00:14:56,459
information you know people should not

339
00:15:01,189 --> 00:14:58,380
be allowed to create weapons grade

340
00:15:03,110 --> 00:15:01,199
plutonium it's too bloody dangerous

341
00:15:04,670 --> 00:15:03,120
there's too many mad Nutters out there

342
00:15:05,629 --> 00:15:04,680
who would misuse it and try and Destroy

343
00:15:07,970 --> 00:15:05,639
them

344
00:15:10,430 --> 00:15:07,980
sure and so in this case if just

345
00:15:13,129 --> 00:15:10,440
hypothetically if there is an awesome

346
00:15:15,410 --> 00:15:13,139
technology that lies behind what we're

347
00:15:18,410 --> 00:15:15,420
talking about here that's been somehow

348
00:15:21,050 --> 00:15:18,420
gifted or mislaid by a non-human

349
00:15:22,730 --> 00:15:21,060
intelligence and we've recovered it one

350
00:15:25,610 --> 00:15:22,740
I prefer that it's America that's got it

351
00:15:28,189 --> 00:15:25,620
I really do and I think genuinely most

352
00:15:29,269 --> 00:15:28,199
of the people who are sitting in dark

353
00:15:32,030 --> 00:15:29,279
rooms

354
00:15:34,490 --> 00:15:32,040
deciding what the hell to do with this

355
00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:34,500
secret are wrestling with the fact that

356
00:15:38,329 --> 00:15:36,480
they just don't want to have to admit

357
00:15:40,730 --> 00:15:38,339
something that might jeopardize the

358
00:15:42,590 --> 00:15:40,740
release of this technology right you can

359
00:15:44,449 --> 00:15:42,600
imagine the Russians and the Chinese you

360
00:15:45,889 --> 00:15:44,459
know if America did stand up and say Hey

361
00:15:48,530 --> 00:15:45,899
listen we've got alien spacecraft

362
00:15:50,269 --> 00:15:48,540
sitting in a basement at Groom Lake the

363
00:15:51,829 --> 00:15:50,279
Russians who I'm pretty sure have got

364
00:15:54,170 --> 00:15:51,839
their own versions of the same thing

365
00:15:55,850 --> 00:15:54,180
would probably scream and holler and say

366
00:15:58,490 --> 00:15:55,860
this is something that Humanity must

367
00:16:00,170 --> 00:15:58,500
know about we must have it frankly I

368
00:16:02,210 --> 00:16:00,180
wouldn't trust Vladimir Putin with a box

369
00:16:04,850 --> 00:16:02,220
of matches right now he's a cold-blooded

370
00:16:08,389 --> 00:16:04,860
murderer you know you know we have to

371
00:16:09,949 --> 00:16:08,399
recognize evil where we see it and stop

372
00:16:11,210 --> 00:16:09,959
walking I mean I

373
00:16:14,750 --> 00:16:11,220
you know

374
00:16:17,930 --> 00:16:14,760
I think at the heart of all of this is

375
00:16:19,970 --> 00:16:17,940
there's a good America there's a proud

376
00:16:22,009 --> 00:16:19,980
and strong America that I grew up with

377
00:16:24,290 --> 00:16:22,019
as a kid now the kind of America that

378
00:16:27,650 --> 00:16:24,300
was just exceptionalist that sent people

379
00:16:29,449 --> 00:16:27,660
to the Moon that did incredible things

380
00:16:33,710 --> 00:16:29,459
and

381
00:16:36,470 --> 00:16:33,720
it's kind of lost its way in the last 20

382
00:16:38,329 --> 00:16:36,480
or 30 years a large part of my adulthood

383
00:16:40,370 --> 00:16:38,339
you know I've just covered shitty little

384
00:16:42,050 --> 00:16:40,380
Wars that the Americans have dragged my

385
00:16:44,329 --> 00:16:42,060
country into that frankly we should have

386
00:16:46,730 --> 00:16:44,339
had no part of and it's been a huge

387
00:16:48,949 --> 00:16:46,740
distraction from the main game because

388
00:16:50,389 --> 00:16:48,959
behind the scenes I'm pretty confident

389
00:16:51,710 --> 00:16:50,399
they've been wrestling with this

390
00:16:53,449 --> 00:16:51,720
enormous Secret

391
00:16:55,129 --> 00:16:53,459
and as they came out of the Cold War

392
00:16:56,689 --> 00:16:55,139
there was a brief moment where I think

393
00:16:58,730 --> 00:16:56,699
they were hoping that they might be able

394
00:17:00,949 --> 00:16:58,740
to be candid with the world

395
00:17:03,170 --> 00:17:00,959
but then things got dark again you know

396
00:17:04,669 --> 00:17:03,180
there's been all manner of stuff going

397
00:17:06,289 --> 00:17:04,679
on behind the scenes that hasn't been

398
00:17:08,210 --> 00:17:06,299
able to be displayed first and I can

399
00:17:11,090 --> 00:17:08,220
understand why

400
00:17:14,270 --> 00:17:11,100
but if they're concealing what they know

401
00:17:16,730 --> 00:17:14,280
for criminal reasons if they're lying to

402
00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:18,650
time to the back of a bumper bar and

403
00:17:23,150 --> 00:17:21,120
drag them around Washington DC and tar

404
00:17:24,829 --> 00:17:23,160
and feather them you know there are

405
00:17:27,110 --> 00:17:24,839
honorable men and women out there

406
00:17:28,909 --> 00:17:27,120
sitting on secrets

407
00:17:32,510 --> 00:17:28,919
and right now

408
00:17:34,669 --> 00:17:32,520
right now is the moment when it's all

409
00:17:36,110 --> 00:17:34,679
starting to happen

410
00:17:39,650 --> 00:17:36,120
I don't know how long it's going to take

411
00:17:43,070 --> 00:17:39,660
for the revelations to begin publicly

412
00:17:45,289 --> 00:17:43,080
but you know I'm aware from talking to

413
00:17:46,549 --> 00:17:45,299
people in Congress that apparently there

414
00:17:48,529 --> 00:17:46,559
have been people who've come forward

415
00:17:50,270 --> 00:17:48,539
who've given first-hand evidence of

416
00:17:52,789 --> 00:17:50,280
stuff they know

417
00:17:54,830 --> 00:17:52,799
it's a big question I suspect Congress

418
00:17:57,410 --> 00:17:54,840
is wrestling with this is what do we

419
00:18:00,970 --> 00:17:57,420
tell the American public

420
00:18:06,169 --> 00:18:03,770
and you know I I think people like

421
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:06,179
Senator Kirsten gillibrand Marco Rubio

422
00:18:10,070 --> 00:18:08,160
they're well-intentioned on this you

423
00:18:11,990 --> 00:18:10,080
know we've we've got leadership a

424
00:18:15,169 --> 00:18:12,000
bipartisan leadership on both sides of

425
00:18:18,409 --> 00:18:15,179
the house who want to do this properly

426
00:18:20,090 --> 00:18:18,419
and um I I can respect the reasons why

427
00:18:22,970 --> 00:18:20,100
they're taking their time

428
00:18:25,549 --> 00:18:22,980
to think about this very very carefully

429
00:18:27,830 --> 00:18:25,559
and also one of the big issues that

430
00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:27,840
they've got to worry about is

431
00:18:34,490 --> 00:18:30,000
crazy ruskies you know at the moment

432
00:18:35,029 --> 00:18:34,500
you've got nut jobs Medford Avenue in

433
00:18:37,130 --> 00:18:35,039
um

434
00:18:39,350 --> 00:18:37,140
in Russia it's threatening to use

435
00:18:41,390 --> 00:18:39,360
tactical nuclear weapons I mean it's

436
00:18:43,730 --> 00:18:41,400
just mind-boggling can you believe where

437
00:18:46,150 --> 00:18:43,740
we are right now on this planet it's an

438
00:18:49,250 --> 00:18:46,160
incredible dangerous time

439
00:18:52,010 --> 00:18:49,260
you've got the Republic of Ukraine

440
00:18:54,529 --> 00:18:52,020
on the point of launching probably one

441
00:18:57,289 --> 00:18:54,539
of the biggest tank and armed infantry

442
00:18:59,750 --> 00:18:57,299
offenses since the Second World War

443
00:19:02,510 --> 00:18:59,760
and we're heading into possibly one of

444
00:19:03,770 --> 00:19:02,520
the most dangerous periods in human

445
00:19:06,890 --> 00:19:03,780
history

446
00:19:09,350 --> 00:19:06,900
and at that very moment there is a

447
00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:09,360
secret being revealed to the Congress

448
00:19:15,350 --> 00:19:11,520
because of these laws

449
00:19:17,210 --> 00:19:15,360
that is slowly unfurling and will slowly

450
00:19:19,610 --> 00:19:17,220
come to light

451
00:19:21,230 --> 00:19:19,620
and I can I can only hope frankly that

452
00:19:23,330 --> 00:19:21,240
we have the leadership in the Congress

453
00:19:25,549 --> 00:19:23,340
and also the leadership in your white

454
00:19:27,169 --> 00:19:25,559
house that can deal with the immensity

455
00:19:29,390 --> 00:19:27,179
of this information

456
00:19:31,909 --> 00:19:29,400
because it is it's just awesome I mean I

457
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:31,919
mean the implications of it hopefully we

458
00:19:35,570 --> 00:19:33,360
might stop and think of ourselves as

459
00:19:37,730 --> 00:19:35,580
human beings as a consequence of it

460
00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:37,740
because the implications are enormous

461
00:19:42,890 --> 00:19:39,840
yeah that would be brilliant the further

462
00:19:44,990 --> 00:19:42,900
uh we go uh with technology the the

463
00:19:48,289 --> 00:19:45,000
farther we go away from what it means to

464
00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:48,299
be human I think uh but what why do you

465
00:19:51,830 --> 00:19:50,400
think the uh

466
00:19:54,890 --> 00:19:51,840
timing

467
00:19:56,930 --> 00:19:54,900
um is so impeccable as as far as this

468
00:19:59,330 --> 00:19:56,940
possible disclosure and

469
00:20:01,549 --> 00:19:59,340
World War III

470
00:20:04,850 --> 00:20:01,559
I think a lot of people in your I mean I

471
00:20:06,529 --> 00:20:04,860
talk an awful lot to people in defense

472
00:20:08,029 --> 00:20:06,539
and intelligence I was in Canberra just

473
00:20:10,010 --> 00:20:08,039
yesterday which is our capital city

474
00:20:11,690 --> 00:20:10,020
where a lot of the sure it's an

475
00:20:14,330 --> 00:20:11,700
intelligence Community are located and

476
00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:14,340
every single person I'm talking to is

477
00:20:19,789 --> 00:20:17,280
talking about the coming War

478
00:20:21,529 --> 00:20:19,799
which I I mean they're talking about a

479
00:20:24,049 --> 00:20:21,539
confrontation with China

480
00:20:25,549 --> 00:20:24,059
and uh I mean I hope it's not true I

481
00:20:27,409 --> 00:20:25,559
really hope that we're able to get

482
00:20:31,130 --> 00:20:27,419
ourselves into a position where we can

483
00:20:33,650 --> 00:20:31,140
negotiate with a rising willpower who we

484
00:20:36,770 --> 00:20:33,660
should respect and the set the problem

485
00:20:39,289 --> 00:20:36,780
is that Z presents such an authoritarian

486
00:20:42,010 --> 00:20:39,299
and dictatorial position treats his

487
00:20:44,510 --> 00:20:42,020
people with such repression and bullying

488
00:20:46,010 --> 00:20:44,520
uh you know there's a real fear that

489
00:20:49,789 --> 00:20:46,020
this is just going to escalate and get

490
00:20:53,570 --> 00:20:49,799
out of control I think that colors how

491
00:20:55,610 --> 00:20:53,580
people feel about the timing of what

492
00:20:57,529 --> 00:20:55,620
we're talking about because it's totally

493
00:20:59,390 --> 00:20:57,539
it's totally serendipitous that it's

494
00:21:01,909 --> 00:20:59,400
happened the way it has you know there's

495
00:21:03,350 --> 00:21:01,919
no there's no deliberate rolling out you

496
00:21:05,690 --> 00:21:03,360
know there's nobody sitting in this in

497
00:21:08,029 --> 00:21:05,700
the Pentagon going push that lever there

498
00:21:10,190 --> 00:21:08,039
we're now going to allow we're now going

499
00:21:11,930 --> 00:21:10,200
to allow Sean Rash to talk to you know

500
00:21:13,070 --> 00:21:11,940
witness John Smith

501
00:21:16,190 --> 00:21:13,080
um

502
00:21:18,770 --> 00:21:16,200
you know it really isn't and and I think

503
00:21:21,529 --> 00:21:18,780
the only way this subject is getting

504
00:21:22,970 --> 00:21:21,539
impetus funnily enough I find this

505
00:21:25,190 --> 00:21:22,980
fascinating as somebody who's worked in

506
00:21:28,610 --> 00:21:25,200
mainstream media it's because of the

507
00:21:29,570 --> 00:21:28,620
power of shows like yours because you

508
00:21:33,230 --> 00:21:29,580
know one of the major national

509
00:21:36,590 --> 00:21:33,240
newspapers in my country it gets 70 000

510
00:21:38,510 --> 00:21:36,600
readers a day that's all it gets well

511
00:21:41,029 --> 00:21:38,520
Joe Rogan who I was just listening to on

512
00:21:44,029 --> 00:21:41,039
the radio as I was driving home Joe

513
00:21:46,549 --> 00:21:44,039
Rogan gets I think 13 or 14 million

514
00:21:49,730 --> 00:21:46,559
listeners or viewers nationally

515
00:21:51,890 --> 00:21:49,740
and this is a this is a change this is a

516
00:21:54,529 --> 00:21:51,900
grand swill that has happened just in

517
00:21:56,750 --> 00:21:54,539
the last few years you know I've in

518
00:21:59,149 --> 00:21:56,760
mainstream media you know I've I've got

519
00:22:00,529 --> 00:21:59,159
TV programs in my country that you know

520
00:22:02,510 --> 00:22:00,539
they're lucky they're really really

521
00:22:05,510 --> 00:22:02,520
happy now if they can crack half a

522
00:22:07,190 --> 00:22:05,520
million viewers and uh you know when I

523
00:22:08,630 --> 00:22:07,200
first started on TV even in a small

524
00:22:10,250 --> 00:22:08,640
country like Australia you know if you

525
00:22:11,450 --> 00:22:10,260
can get 2 million viewers you were

526
00:22:14,149 --> 00:22:11,460
really proud

527
00:22:16,669 --> 00:22:14,159
and so what's happening is the media the

528
00:22:18,890 --> 00:22:16,679
mainstream media it's relevance in terms

529
00:22:22,250 --> 00:22:18,900
of the coverage and the investigation of

530
00:22:25,310 --> 00:22:22,260
big issues like the UAP issue it's

531
00:22:27,169 --> 00:22:25,320
completely lost its relevance and I know

532
00:22:30,010 --> 00:22:27,179
you may feel that you're just another

533
00:22:33,470 --> 00:22:30,020
podcast or podcast

534
00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:33,480
you are you're playing a key role in

535
00:22:38,810 --> 00:22:35,280
raising public Consciousness and

536
00:22:40,070 --> 00:22:38,820
awareness in a way that I know people in

537
00:22:42,289 --> 00:22:40,080
the Pentagon on the intelligence

538
00:22:43,610 --> 00:22:42,299
Community are monitoring and what

539
00:22:45,169 --> 00:22:43,620
they're doing is they're trying to make

540
00:22:46,370 --> 00:22:45,179
an assessment about whether the public

541
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:46,380
is ready

542
00:22:51,470 --> 00:22:48,960
for more Revelations and I think we are

543
00:22:53,510 --> 00:22:51,480
I really do I think nothing would bring

544
00:22:56,149 --> 00:22:53,520
human and human beings together more

545
00:22:57,710 --> 00:22:56,159
than the knowledge of what I suspect is

546
00:23:00,409 --> 00:22:57,720
the case which is that there is a

547
00:23:02,210 --> 00:23:00,419
non-human intelligence engaging with

548
00:23:04,909 --> 00:23:02,220
this planet I don't know that for sure

549
00:23:06,710 --> 00:23:04,919
myself but I'm pretty confident from

550
00:23:09,590 --> 00:23:06,720
what I'm hearing from so many people

551
00:23:12,350 --> 00:23:09,600
that that we are on the cusp of

552
00:23:15,110 --> 00:23:12,360
momentous Revelations and as I'm saying

553
00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:15,120
that I can hear the cynical size of so

554
00:23:20,270 --> 00:23:17,840
many people in the world

555
00:23:23,510 --> 00:23:20,280
they go oh yeah yeah they're saying

556
00:23:25,970 --> 00:23:23,520
again well apparently those people if

557
00:23:28,010 --> 00:23:25,980
you really are if you really are so

558
00:23:31,610 --> 00:23:28,020
jaundiced and weary of the whole subject

559
00:23:37,730 --> 00:23:33,970
you know seriously

560
00:23:39,409 --> 00:23:37,740
go away seriously I'm not interested I

561
00:23:41,390 --> 00:23:39,419
don't care anymore I know what I know

562
00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:41,400
and it's funny because I was just

563
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:43,200
listening to my friend James Fox and he

564
00:23:47,450 --> 00:23:44,640
was getting quite emotional as he was

565
00:23:49,310 --> 00:23:47,460
talking to Joe Rogan about the trust

566
00:23:51,770 --> 00:23:49,320
that he is endowed with by the people

567
00:23:54,409 --> 00:23:51,780
who've given him information and I feel

568
00:23:59,029 --> 00:23:54,419
the same way I really do I mean I I'm

569
00:24:01,130 --> 00:23:59,039
awestruck by the the seniority and the

570
00:24:02,990 --> 00:24:01,140
the level of knowledge and experience of

571
00:24:05,570 --> 00:24:03,000
some of the people who've been brave

572
00:24:07,430 --> 00:24:05,580
enough to to engage with me I mean I'm

573
00:24:11,330 --> 00:24:07,440
just an Australian journalist you know

574
00:24:13,909 --> 00:24:11,340
making a living Down Under and you treat

575
00:24:16,549 --> 00:24:13,919
your services as well I've I've dug into

576
00:24:19,970 --> 00:24:16,559
your history of you know I know how you

577
00:24:21,529 --> 00:24:19,980
protect your sources you know your story

578
00:24:23,930 --> 00:24:21,539
when you're on the courthouse and you

579
00:24:26,570 --> 00:24:23,940
had to call the guy yeah I know that

580
00:24:29,630 --> 00:24:26,580
story I would die in a ditch to protect

581
00:24:32,930 --> 00:24:29,640
a source I really would right and the um

582
00:24:36,049 --> 00:24:32,940
the simple fact is a lot of mainstream

583
00:24:37,370 --> 00:24:36,059
media have lost sight of how to

584
00:24:38,990 --> 00:24:37,380
investigate

585
00:24:42,590 --> 00:24:39,000
and you know when I was a young Cub

586
00:24:44,090 --> 00:24:42,600
reporter I'm nearly 60 and and you know

587
00:24:46,610 --> 00:24:44,100
when I was a young cupboard

588
00:24:48,590 --> 00:24:46,620
yeah isn't that shocking you know you're

589
00:24:50,710 --> 00:24:48,600
gonna tell me

590
00:24:55,250 --> 00:24:53,090
but no I am you know when I was a young

591
00:24:58,010 --> 00:24:55,260
reporter you had senior reporters who

592
00:25:01,010 --> 00:24:58,020
would imbue with you the absolute

593
00:25:03,230 --> 00:25:01,020
essential need to understand how to

594
00:25:05,210 --> 00:25:03,240
protect sources and how to be rigorous

595
00:25:08,570 --> 00:25:05,220
and skeptical and how to how to

596
00:25:10,909 --> 00:25:08,580
investigate Stuff how to find things out

597
00:25:13,010 --> 00:25:10,919
and because it's a sacred trust it

598
00:25:15,169 --> 00:25:13,020
really is and your country more than any

599
00:25:18,110 --> 00:25:15,179
other country in the world with great

600
00:25:20,510 --> 00:25:18,120
people like Woodward and Bernstein you

601
00:25:23,390 --> 00:25:20,520
know they've broken incredible stories

602
00:25:25,850 --> 00:25:23,400
and that's been done because largely of

603
00:25:27,169 --> 00:25:25,860
the carriage of individual Witnesses and

604
00:25:28,789 --> 00:25:27,179
whistleblowers

605
00:25:30,950 --> 00:25:28,799
and this is where we're at at the moment

606
00:25:33,409 --> 00:25:30,960
because you know I've

607
00:25:35,630 --> 00:25:33,419
oh where was I just recently I was at a

608
00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:35,640
I was at a drinks with a fair willinger

609
00:25:40,130 --> 00:25:38,159
mate who was leading the media and um

610
00:25:42,049 --> 00:25:40,140
uh people were pissing me you know

611
00:25:43,669 --> 00:25:42,059
basically going ah Cool's out you're

612
00:25:46,130 --> 00:25:43,679
still doing your bloody book on UFOs are

613
00:25:48,289 --> 00:25:46,140
you mate you know it did all that crazy

614
00:25:50,990 --> 00:25:48,299
you know and it's this gentle piss tape

615
00:25:53,930 --> 00:25:51,000
that happens in the media and it's still

616
00:25:55,130 --> 00:25:53,940
treated with ridicule and dismissiveness

617
00:25:59,090 --> 00:25:55,140
and stigma

618
00:26:00,649 --> 00:25:59,100
and I laugh all the time because they

619
00:26:03,769 --> 00:26:00,659
don't know what I know

620
00:26:06,769 --> 00:26:03,779
and I feel so punched I feel so

621
00:26:09,830 --> 00:26:06,779
privileged as a journalist to be at the

622
00:26:11,870 --> 00:26:09,840
Forefront of what I think is the story

623
00:26:16,250 --> 00:26:11,880
of the millennium

624
00:26:19,130 --> 00:26:16,260
it is just mind-blowing to me what is

625
00:26:21,230 --> 00:26:19,140
going to come very very soon and what is

626
00:26:23,930 --> 00:26:21,240
already coming I mean what we already

627
00:26:26,090 --> 00:26:23,940
know is momentous Sean you know we know

628
00:26:28,010 --> 00:26:26,100
now from the evidence that has been

629
00:26:30,289 --> 00:26:28,020
presented to the Congress and even the

630
00:26:32,810 --> 00:26:30,299
begrudging admissions the truculent

631
00:26:35,269 --> 00:26:32,820
slightly begrudging admissions of Dr

632
00:26:37,669 --> 00:26:35,279
Kirkpatrick who no doubt is a brilliant

633
00:26:39,830 --> 00:26:37,679
man but just can't help but through the

634
00:26:43,310 --> 00:26:39,840
minimum possible to reveal what he knows

635
00:26:47,029 --> 00:26:43,320
you know we know that there is something

636
00:26:49,190 --> 00:26:47,039
operating in our oceans in our skies and

637
00:26:50,149 --> 00:26:49,200
in our orbit which is doing anomalous

638
00:26:52,130 --> 00:26:50,159
things

639
00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:52,140
and if you accept the evidence that is

640
00:26:56,269 --> 00:26:53,760
being presented which I know a lot of

641
00:26:58,010 --> 00:26:56,279
people don't but just go away I can't be

642
00:26:59,810 --> 00:26:58,020
bothered with you I'm really not

643
00:27:02,169 --> 00:26:59,820
interested in pure oil arguments about

644
00:27:04,610 --> 00:27:02,179
weather balloons or um

645
00:27:06,470 --> 00:27:04,620
it's just I mean I think we should start

646
00:27:10,250 --> 00:27:06,480
ignoring these people you know we really

647
00:27:11,390 --> 00:27:10,260
are yeah yeah of course seriously you

648
00:27:13,610 --> 00:27:11,400
know

649
00:27:17,570 --> 00:27:13,620
um the the simple fact is that there is

650
00:27:20,510 --> 00:27:17,580
just overwhelming evidence and I'm

651
00:27:22,970 --> 00:27:20,520
I'm very privileged because like a lot

652
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:22,980
of journalists you know in my career at

653
00:27:26,690 --> 00:27:24,720
different times you know you find things

654
00:27:28,250 --> 00:27:26,700
at well in advance of when the public

655
00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:28,260
gets to know them

656
00:27:32,210 --> 00:27:30,720
and I know a lot of what's coming

657
00:27:36,669 --> 00:27:32,220
and believe me

658
00:27:40,370 --> 00:27:36,679
it's revelatory it's astonishing it's

659
00:27:43,789 --> 00:27:40,380
mind-blowing and I I think

660
00:27:46,789 --> 00:27:43,799
um if people hold fast

661
00:27:50,029 --> 00:27:46,799
if they do simple things like exert

662
00:27:53,390 --> 00:27:50,039
their rights as voters and let their

663
00:27:55,370 --> 00:27:53,400
elected officials know this matters I

664
00:27:58,190 --> 00:27:55,380
promise you it matters more than

665
00:28:02,810 --> 00:27:58,200
anything else to let people like Kirsten

666
00:28:05,090 --> 00:28:02,820
gillibrand Marco Rubio Warner

667
00:28:06,830 --> 00:28:05,100
um Carson all of these people who've

668
00:28:08,930 --> 00:28:06,840
been prominent in sticking their heads

669
00:28:11,510 --> 00:28:08,940
up and Having the courage as political

670
00:28:13,310 --> 00:28:11,520
representatives to say look I care about

671
00:28:15,169 --> 00:28:13,320
this issue I'm interested in this and I

672
00:28:16,730 --> 00:28:15,179
want to get to the truth of it the

673
00:28:18,529 --> 00:28:16,740
people who've pushed for legislation in

674
00:28:21,169 --> 00:28:18,539
the Congress to let those people know

675
00:28:24,649 --> 00:28:21,179
that what they've done is appreciated by

676
00:28:27,230 --> 00:28:24,659
the voting public it's huge it's so

677
00:28:29,269 --> 00:28:27,240
important take the time don't just send

678
00:28:32,029 --> 00:28:29,279
them an email find out their address

679
00:28:34,909 --> 00:28:32,039
write them a letter write them a bloody

680
00:28:37,810 --> 00:28:34,919
letter and that's their home address by

681
00:28:41,029 --> 00:28:37,820
the way no no no that has such

682
00:28:43,190 --> 00:28:41,039
really does you know and um I think

683
00:28:44,810 --> 00:28:43,200
people need to know that that what they

684
00:28:46,850 --> 00:28:44,820
need to do is just let their elected

685
00:28:49,370 --> 00:28:46,860
representatives know that this issue

686
00:28:51,230 --> 00:28:49,380
matters and we can we can make this a

687
00:28:52,850 --> 00:28:51,240
political issue in the next presidential

688
00:28:54,830 --> 00:28:52,860
election campaign

689
00:28:56,510 --> 00:28:54,840
I mean just like being around this

690
00:28:58,190 --> 00:28:56,520
community for a little while you can

691
00:29:00,529 --> 00:28:58,200
tell what kind of flack people take for

692
00:29:02,870 --> 00:29:00,539
uh taking on this topic seriously

693
00:29:05,390 --> 00:29:02,880
whatever position you're in in life if

694
00:29:07,310 --> 00:29:05,400
you go public as being interested in

695
00:29:10,070 --> 00:29:07,320
this you're going to take heed so and

696
00:29:11,630 --> 00:29:10,080
that's what Senator gillibrand is

697
00:29:14,450 --> 00:29:11,640
getting in other people are getting heat

698
00:29:16,549 --> 00:29:14,460
as well so you know they're they're

699
00:29:19,310 --> 00:29:16,559
they're gonna do a better job they're

700
00:29:22,010 --> 00:29:19,320
gonna have more uh conviction if they

701
00:29:23,810 --> 00:29:22,020
get some gratefulness uh from the people

702
00:29:25,010 --> 00:29:23,820
they're doing it for so I completely

703
00:29:27,649 --> 00:29:25,020
agree with you

704
00:29:30,529 --> 00:29:27,659
yeah no it's um you know we're at a

705
00:29:32,389 --> 00:29:30,539
Tipping Point right now and um

706
00:29:34,130 --> 00:29:32,399
I I know the world's a shitty place

707
00:29:35,690 --> 00:29:34,140
right now I'm you know I'd lie in bed at

708
00:29:38,389 --> 00:29:35,700
night don't worry about it I know I

709
00:29:39,950 --> 00:29:38,399
worry about North Korea I work Iran and

710
00:29:42,350 --> 00:29:39,960
and Ukraine

711
00:29:44,269 --> 00:29:42,360
and I've got things we were fighting in

712
00:29:46,970 --> 00:29:44,279
Ukraine you know I've I've got friends

713
00:29:49,370 --> 00:29:46,980
who have been wounded and it's horrible

714
00:29:52,610 --> 00:29:49,380
it's it's terrible to think that in this

715
00:29:56,389 --> 00:29:52,620
era there's actually a trench war going

716
00:29:59,029 --> 00:29:56,399
on uh I find it mind-bob deeply deep

717
00:30:01,190 --> 00:29:59,039
fitting but imagine this imagine if if

718
00:30:02,649 --> 00:30:01,200
there is a non-human intelligence out

719
00:30:05,630 --> 00:30:02,659
there that's engaging with this planet

720
00:30:08,149 --> 00:30:05,640
imagine the awesomeness

721
00:30:11,029 --> 00:30:08,159
of the moment when people start thinking

722
00:30:15,049 --> 00:30:11,039
of themselves not as Russians or Chinese

723
00:30:16,130 --> 00:30:15,059
or ukrainians or Iranians but as humans

724
00:30:18,350 --> 00:30:16,140
sure

725
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:18,360
that's a momentous point in human

726
00:30:21,529 --> 00:30:19,440
history

727
00:30:23,330 --> 00:30:21,539
and it has to be I mean I appreciate it

728
00:30:24,409 --> 00:30:23,340
has to be managed it has to be carefully

729
00:30:28,130 --> 00:30:24,419
handled

730
00:30:38,090 --> 00:30:29,690
let me ask you

731
00:30:41,450 --> 00:30:38,100
do you think is enough proof for it to

732
00:30:43,130 --> 00:30:41,460
have that sort of effect on mankind

733
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:43,140
okay well one of the debates that's

734
00:30:48,769 --> 00:30:45,360
happening at the moment is a lot of

735
00:30:51,769 --> 00:30:48,779
dullards say witness evidence is no

736
00:30:53,769 --> 00:30:51,779
evidence they say oh if a witness comes

737
00:30:55,909 --> 00:30:53,779
forward I don't really care because

738
00:30:57,110 --> 00:30:55,919
Witnesses just make things up and it's

739
00:30:58,250 --> 00:30:57,120
all rubbish

740
00:31:00,889 --> 00:30:58,260
now

741
00:31:03,590 --> 00:31:00,899
I don't buy that I really don't okay

742
00:31:05,690 --> 00:31:03,600
when you've got say Richard Doty or

743
00:31:08,930 --> 00:31:05,700
people like that of questionable or

744
00:31:10,970 --> 00:31:08,940
reliability who make assertions which in

745
00:31:14,269 --> 00:31:10,980
some cases can be tested and shown to be

746
00:31:16,010 --> 00:31:14,279
dubious yeah sure you know question the

747
00:31:17,570 --> 00:31:16,020
witness evidence see if you can

748
00:31:20,029 --> 00:31:17,580
corroborate it that's what I spend a lot

749
00:31:21,350 --> 00:31:20,039
of my time doing but in journalism if a

750
00:31:24,289 --> 00:31:21,360
witness tells me something I don't

751
00:31:26,149 --> 00:31:24,299
dismiss it I don't say oh gosh it's a

752
00:31:28,010 --> 00:31:26,159
witness I I can't rely on that I need

753
00:31:29,330 --> 00:31:28,020
photographs I Need video you know

754
00:31:30,710 --> 00:31:29,340
because you can even then you can

755
00:31:33,710 --> 00:31:30,720
question a photograph for your questions

756
00:31:35,510 --> 00:31:33,720
yeah always yeah but in journalism what

757
00:31:37,190 --> 00:31:35,520
we look for in one of the standard tests

758
00:31:39,529 --> 00:31:37,200
and investigative journalism is if

759
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:39,539
you've got two authoritative Witnesses

760
00:31:42,950 --> 00:31:41,039
who have direct knowledge of something

761
00:31:45,230 --> 00:31:42,960
telling you the same thing with no

762
00:31:47,450 --> 00:31:45,240
inconsistencies that's pretty reliable

763
00:31:49,549 --> 00:31:47,460
evidence and I've gone to court and I've

764
00:31:51,230 --> 00:31:49,559
defended that before juries and I've won

765
00:31:53,570 --> 00:31:51,240
cases based on the evidence that we've

766
00:31:56,210 --> 00:31:53,580
presented that's in principle evidence

767
00:31:59,350 --> 00:31:56,220
you know I'm a lawyer and I know how to

768
00:32:01,730 --> 00:31:59,360
present evidence and the thing that um

769
00:32:04,789 --> 00:32:01,740
fascinates me is

770
00:32:07,250 --> 00:32:04,799
there's a kind of a weird argument that

771
00:32:09,830 --> 00:32:07,260
um people like Mig West for example put

772
00:32:11,810 --> 00:32:09,840
which is that witness evidence should

773
00:32:13,370 --> 00:32:11,820
just automatically be discounted

774
00:32:14,990 --> 00:32:13,380
you know we shouldn't we shouldn't give

775
00:32:17,269 --> 00:32:15,000
it credibility because they might be

776
00:32:19,310 --> 00:32:17,279
just misinterpreting things or you know

777
00:32:21,289 --> 00:32:19,320
misconstruing prosaic things for

778
00:32:23,210 --> 00:32:21,299
anomalous things right and they might

779
00:32:25,010 --> 00:32:23,220
they might be

780
00:32:26,870 --> 00:32:25,020
but then when you have a succession of

781
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:26,880
witnesses as you do in the Nimitz case

782
00:32:30,950 --> 00:32:28,559
who are saying that what they saw was

783
00:32:32,210 --> 00:32:30,960
anomalous you don't discount it I mean I

784
00:32:34,310 --> 00:32:32,220
think one of the most disingenuous

785
00:32:36,409 --> 00:32:34,320
things with the a lot of the analysis

786
00:32:40,669 --> 00:32:36,419
for example of the Nimitz incident the

787
00:32:43,430 --> 00:32:40,679
2004 Tic Tac sighting is a lot of people

788
00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:43,440
just sees on one byte of evidence they

789
00:32:46,669 --> 00:32:45,840
go well yeah yeah freyva says that he

790
00:32:49,370 --> 00:32:46,679
saw

791
00:32:51,649 --> 00:32:49,380
a Tic Tac but you know it wasn't a plane

792
00:32:54,710 --> 00:32:51,659
or a drone or something like that

793
00:32:56,810 --> 00:32:54,720
and the simple fact is that we know that

794
00:32:59,090 --> 00:32:56,820
because there were multiple data points

795
00:33:00,350 --> 00:32:59,100
all over that battle Fleet it wasn't

796
00:33:02,690 --> 00:33:00,360
just one

797
00:33:05,090 --> 00:33:02,700
it was Kevin day sitting in front of his

798
00:33:07,970 --> 00:33:05,100
battle radar looking at objects going

799
00:33:11,090 --> 00:33:07,980
from 80 000 feet to just above the water

800
00:33:14,450 --> 00:33:11,100
in incredible speeds

801
00:33:16,250 --> 00:33:14,460
it's a whole host of witnesses who

802
00:33:19,310 --> 00:33:16,260
um I know there's a fantastic report

803
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:19,320
that the um scientific Coalition for the

804
00:33:24,529 --> 00:33:22,080
study of UAP Robert Powell did which is

805
00:33:27,350 --> 00:33:24,539
just brilliant which just analyzes the

806
00:33:29,769 --> 00:33:27,360
anomalous data that is available on on

807
00:33:32,090 --> 00:33:29,779
the evidence of witnesses

808
00:33:33,889 --> 00:33:32,100
absolutely no doubt whatsoever that

809
00:33:37,490 --> 00:33:33,899
there was something anomalous there that

810
00:33:39,769 --> 00:33:37,500
cannot be explained on human technology

811
00:33:41,330 --> 00:33:39,779
I mean one of the things that amuses me

812
00:33:42,350 --> 00:33:41,340
is

813
00:33:46,909 --> 00:33:42,360
um

814
00:33:49,789 --> 00:33:46,919
a lot of people are dismissing the mosul

815
00:33:52,730 --> 00:33:49,799
sphere that Jeremy Corbell and George

816
00:33:55,009 --> 00:33:52,740
Knapp published and saying oh yeah you

817
00:33:57,230 --> 00:33:55,019
know okay it was shown by the UAP task

818
00:33:59,570 --> 00:33:57,240
force in briefings to Congress but um

819
00:34:00,830 --> 00:33:59,580
you know it was probably a balloon you

820
00:34:02,090 --> 00:34:00,840
know and these these kind of balloons

821
00:34:04,190 --> 00:34:02,100
are seen all over the Middle East so

822
00:34:06,950 --> 00:34:04,200
therefore that must be the explanation

823
00:34:09,409 --> 00:34:06,960
off I mean seriously

824
00:34:12,129 --> 00:34:09,419
I mean this is the UAP task force here

825
00:34:14,570 --> 00:34:12,139
they've looked at prosaic explanations

826
00:34:17,450 --> 00:34:14,580
what they showed and that and that's

827
00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:17,460
freeze and that's still freeze and they

828
00:34:20,450 --> 00:34:18,960
did that for a very good reason because

829
00:34:21,950 --> 00:34:20,460
they wanted to protect sources and

830
00:34:24,589 --> 00:34:21,960
methods because Jeremy and George

831
00:34:26,570 --> 00:34:24,599
thought about the consequences as

832
00:34:29,030 --> 00:34:26,580
journalists of publishing the full video

833
00:34:30,649 --> 00:34:29,040
and thought that maybe by doing that

834
00:34:33,230 --> 00:34:30,659
they might reveal something that might

835
00:34:35,510 --> 00:34:33,240
compromise the quality and and the

836
00:34:38,030 --> 00:34:35,520
evidence Gathering abilities of U.S

837
00:34:40,010 --> 00:34:38,040
intelligence and there was that quite

838
00:34:41,629 --> 00:34:40,020
properly as they should have been but

839
00:34:44,089 --> 00:34:41,639
I've spoken to people behind the scenes

840
00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:44,099
who've told me that that object is was

841
00:34:49,550 --> 00:34:46,560
anomalous and similarly with the object

842
00:34:51,829 --> 00:34:49,560
that Dr Kirkpatrick showed to the um the

843
00:34:54,829 --> 00:34:51,839
Congress just a few weeks ago you know

844
00:34:56,570 --> 00:34:54,839
you had these weird armchair experts who

845
00:34:58,130 --> 00:34:56,580
jumped out of their chairs and said ah

846
00:34:59,570 --> 00:34:58,140
yes it's another balloon absolutely

847
00:35:01,250 --> 00:34:59,580
that's another balloon it's got to be a

848
00:35:04,070 --> 00:35:01,260
balloon or a puddle of water you know

849
00:35:06,710 --> 00:35:04,080
and I just why do we why do we even

850
00:35:09,109 --> 00:35:06,720
inhale breath bothering deals with these

851
00:35:14,510 --> 00:35:11,690
um you know I mean I I talk to people

852
00:35:16,250 --> 00:35:14,520
who have knowledge of those objects and

853
00:35:18,530 --> 00:35:16,260
the and the videos that are recording

854
00:35:20,870 --> 00:35:18,540
them and they tell me that those objects

855
00:35:22,430 --> 00:35:20,880
are anomalous I also talk to people

856
00:35:25,010 --> 00:35:22,440
who've told me about the other videos

857
00:35:27,050 --> 00:35:25,020
that haven't been released

858
00:35:29,569 --> 00:35:27,060
and if the public saw those they would

859
00:35:31,250 --> 00:35:29,579
be mind blown but then yeah I'm sure

860
00:35:33,970 --> 00:35:31,260
somebody would stand up and say oh yeah

861
00:35:36,349 --> 00:35:33,980
it's just a bloody problem

862
00:35:37,250 --> 00:35:36,359
are they of spirits do you know the

863
00:35:41,950 --> 00:35:37,260
videos

864
00:35:45,170 --> 00:35:41,960
spheres or any kind of uh

865
00:35:46,730 --> 00:35:45,180
did you notice of the um what was one

866
00:35:49,490 --> 00:35:46,740
thing that was very positive from what

867
00:35:51,410 --> 00:35:49,500
Dr Kirkpatrick published was if you if

868
00:35:54,109 --> 00:35:51,420
you remember a few months ago people had

869
00:35:56,650 --> 00:35:54,119
tried to foi what the categories were of

870
00:35:59,930 --> 00:35:56,660
shapes and sizes yeah

871
00:36:01,370 --> 00:35:59,940
that was classified and nothing shows

872
00:36:03,349 --> 00:36:01,380
the lie to the fact that it was

873
00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:03,359
necessary to classify it more than the

874
00:36:07,430 --> 00:36:05,520
fact that Dr Kirkpatrick had recency to

875
00:36:09,230 --> 00:36:07,440
tell the Congress that yeah he's a pie

876
00:36:12,230 --> 00:36:09,240
chart that shows the different shapes

877
00:36:14,690 --> 00:36:12,240
you've actually got and spheres feature

878
00:36:16,730 --> 00:36:14,700
a lot and look I can't talk much about

879
00:36:19,430 --> 00:36:16,740
it but there is you know there is still

880
00:36:21,530 --> 00:36:19,440
research underway at the moment into the

881
00:36:24,829 --> 00:36:21,540
sphere that we did a story about about a

882
00:36:26,930 --> 00:36:24,839
year ago right and I'm you know

883
00:36:28,930 --> 00:36:26,940
constantly barrage with requests and

884
00:36:31,370 --> 00:36:28,940
inquiries from people who want to know

885
00:36:33,109 --> 00:36:31,380
uh what's happened with the inquiries

886
00:36:34,730 --> 00:36:33,119
into the metallic sphere that we know

887
00:36:37,250 --> 00:36:34,740
because a lot of people have realized

888
00:36:39,730 --> 00:36:37,260
that that metallic sphere be isn't it

889
00:36:42,710 --> 00:36:39,740
any resemblance to the Spheres

890
00:36:46,690 --> 00:36:42,720
grafting classified now being released

891
00:36:48,829 --> 00:36:46,700
defense department videos funny yeah

892
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:48,839
I have cocked on that story without

893
00:36:51,770 --> 00:36:50,400
having some level of knowledge to

894
00:36:54,230 --> 00:36:51,780
suggest that there might be some basis

895
00:36:56,990 --> 00:36:54,240
to it it depends who you ask if you if

896
00:36:59,569 --> 00:36:57,000
you ask a classic debunker yeah I mean

897
00:37:01,730 --> 00:36:59,579
nobody checks any sources they just go

898
00:37:03,730 --> 00:37:01,740
out there with any story they want if

899
00:37:07,130 --> 00:37:03,740
yes but

900
00:37:10,370 --> 00:37:07,140
we just gotta have given them breadth

901
00:37:13,250 --> 00:37:10,380
yeah no I mean I I really think that um

902
00:37:15,170 --> 00:37:13,260
one of the things that I find quite

903
00:37:17,569 --> 00:37:15,180
upsetting about Twitter is that there

904
00:37:19,550 --> 00:37:17,579
are people who grandstand on Twitter and

905
00:37:23,030 --> 00:37:19,560
try and Garner an audience kind of

906
00:37:25,250 --> 00:37:23,040
pathetic really uh by essentially being

907
00:37:28,010 --> 00:37:25,260
dumb debunkers

908
00:37:30,890 --> 00:37:28,020
um and I wouldn't mind so much if the

909
00:37:33,950 --> 00:37:30,900
debunking had a basis in solid rational

910
00:37:35,329 --> 00:37:33,960
skepticism but it doesn't it's just

911
00:37:38,270 --> 00:37:35,339
folly

912
00:37:39,770 --> 00:37:38,280
half the reason I can't I don't want to

913
00:37:41,210 --> 00:37:39,780
be bothered addressing it is because a

914
00:37:43,010 --> 00:37:41,220
lot of what I know I know from

915
00:37:45,290 --> 00:37:43,020
confidential sources who are telling me

916
00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:45,300
yeah right hey do they mind you going

917
00:37:48,829 --> 00:37:47,760
out and talking about this stuff can I

918
00:37:50,569 --> 00:37:48,839
just come back to the point that you did

919
00:37:53,089 --> 00:37:50,579
ask me that initiated that response oh

920
00:37:54,349 --> 00:37:53,099
yeah yeah sure sure go ahead what's the

921
00:37:56,750 --> 00:37:54,359
kind of evidence that is convincing

922
00:37:59,870 --> 00:37:56,760
evidence I wanted to make the point that

923
00:38:01,069 --> 00:37:59,880
I do think witness evidence is important

924
00:38:05,870 --> 00:38:01,079
you know

925
00:38:10,250 --> 00:38:05,880
um uh and uh I just just to underline

926
00:38:12,349 --> 00:38:10,260
that um the uh Rua case you know the Rua

927
00:38:15,770 --> 00:38:12,359
Zimbabwe case

928
00:38:19,010 --> 00:38:15,780
um yeah when you've got children

929
00:38:21,530 --> 00:38:19,020
recorded at the time on video

930
00:38:23,870 --> 00:38:21,540
basically saying what they saw and they

931
00:38:27,290 --> 00:38:23,880
have a reasonably consistent story and

932
00:38:29,750 --> 00:38:27,300
description of what they say they saw

933
00:38:31,490 --> 00:38:29,760
why is it legitimate for somebody who's

934
00:38:34,069 --> 00:38:31,500
never met these kids

935
00:38:36,290 --> 00:38:34,079
never interviewed them never done the

936
00:38:37,730 --> 00:38:36,300
kind of analysis that people who've

937
00:38:40,190 --> 00:38:37,740
actually gone on the grad and actually

938
00:38:42,470 --> 00:38:40,200
done the research you've done why is it

939
00:38:44,870 --> 00:38:42,480
legitimate for them to dismissively go

940
00:38:46,250 --> 00:38:44,880
oh yeah children mistake things all the

941
00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:46,260
time they make stories up and tell

942
00:38:50,690 --> 00:38:47,760
stories to each other it's just that

943
00:38:54,890 --> 00:38:50,700
just their Lively fertile imaginations

944
00:38:56,569 --> 00:38:54,900
I'm sorry no and and I think the um yes

945
00:38:58,670 --> 00:38:56,579
you always have to be guarded and

946
00:39:00,589 --> 00:38:58,680
careful for cross-contamination of

947
00:39:02,690 --> 00:39:00,599
evidence and there are certain things

948
00:39:04,670 --> 00:39:02,700
that that I do as a journalist when I'm

949
00:39:07,190 --> 00:39:04,680
checking something out that that you

950
00:39:09,829 --> 00:39:07,200
know you do you try and verify sources

951
00:39:12,230 --> 00:39:09,839
in ways that you often can't discuss

952
00:39:14,690 --> 00:39:12,240
I've actually had situations where

953
00:39:17,510 --> 00:39:14,700
I've run a story

954
00:39:20,450 --> 00:39:17,520
and a very senior government official is

955
00:39:22,190 --> 00:39:20,460
categorically declaiming the story and

956
00:39:24,050 --> 00:39:22,200
saying No this this is wrong it's

957
00:39:25,670 --> 00:39:24,060
because you're not the case and they're

958
00:39:28,970 --> 00:39:25,680
my solos

959
00:39:30,829 --> 00:39:28,980
oh no it's um it's very funny and

960
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:30,839
they've warned me that publicly they're

961
00:39:34,250 --> 00:39:32,160
going to have to say what they're saying

962
00:39:38,030 --> 00:39:34,260
and you know it's sometimes it's very

963
00:39:40,210 --> 00:39:38,040
very hard and the um the the the simple

964
00:39:43,849 --> 00:39:40,220
fact is that one of the fundamental

965
00:39:45,470 --> 00:39:43,859
tenets of the job that I do is

966
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:45,480
protecting sources

967
00:39:51,050 --> 00:39:48,000
you know you you really have to it's

968
00:39:53,089 --> 00:39:51,060
fundamental and in the Spy business it's

969
00:39:54,710 --> 00:39:53,099
the same you know the Americans for

970
00:39:58,069 --> 00:39:54,720
example have had people in the Kremlin

971
00:40:00,650 --> 00:39:58,079
very close to Putin and uh there was a

972
00:40:02,270 --> 00:40:00,660
great story uh just recently about how

973
00:40:05,450 --> 00:40:02,280
some of those people have been found out

974
00:40:07,849 --> 00:40:05,460
and um sadly I think the consequences

975
00:40:10,010 --> 00:40:07,859
are very severe in Espionage and

976
00:40:11,390 --> 00:40:10,020
intelligence and and they can be severe

977
00:40:13,069 --> 00:40:11,400
for people with journalism as well

978
00:40:14,690 --> 00:40:13,079
because if they tell stuff to a

979
00:40:16,670 --> 00:40:14,700
journalist that they shouldn't and I

980
00:40:18,050 --> 00:40:16,680
don't do enough to protect them they can

981
00:40:19,849 --> 00:40:18,060
lose their jobs

982
00:40:21,609 --> 00:40:19,859
mm-hmm

983
00:40:24,530 --> 00:40:21,619
so yeah

984
00:40:26,930 --> 00:40:24,540
I apologize yeah yeah no that leads me

985
00:40:29,510 --> 00:40:26,940
to what I wanted to ask is how do they

986
00:40:30,770 --> 00:40:29,520
feel with you you know talking about

987
00:40:32,690 --> 00:40:30,780
some of the things they tell you

988
00:40:34,730 --> 00:40:32,700
publicly

989
00:40:36,290 --> 00:40:34,740
they're encouraging me to because what

990
00:40:38,089 --> 00:40:36,300
it's doing is it's bringing other people

991
00:40:38,810 --> 00:40:38,099
forward

992
00:40:40,490 --> 00:40:38,820
um

993
00:40:44,270 --> 00:40:40,500
I wish I could tell you everything I

994
00:40:47,530 --> 00:40:44,280
know right now me tell me believe me I

995
00:40:50,030 --> 00:40:47,540
can edit it up yes

996
00:40:51,349 --> 00:40:50,040
in a few months time you'll be looking

997
00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:51,359
back at this interview and you'll be

998
00:40:56,930 --> 00:40:53,040
going

999
00:40:59,690 --> 00:40:56,940
what you know you know this is stuff

1000
00:41:01,430 --> 00:40:59,700
coming down the track and I think it's

1001
00:41:03,410 --> 00:41:01,440
going to resolve this issue once and for

1002
00:41:05,750 --> 00:41:03,420
all I really do well

1003
00:41:07,490 --> 00:41:05,760
what's what's next up for you on the

1004
00:41:09,710 --> 00:41:07,500
docket are you

1005
00:41:11,390 --> 00:41:09,720
um you're you're still kind of making an

1006
00:41:13,329 --> 00:41:11,400
addition to your book in plain sight

1007
00:41:15,589 --> 00:41:13,339
correct and yeah

1008
00:41:18,410 --> 00:41:15,599
she just sent that off to the publisher

1009
00:41:19,910 --> 00:41:18,420
so the good news is that Collins who

1010
00:41:22,010 --> 00:41:19,920
funnily enough are also publishing Louis

1011
00:41:24,890 --> 00:41:22,020
zondo's book Harper columns which is

1012
00:41:28,550 --> 00:41:24,900
news corporation they um they're

1013
00:41:31,430 --> 00:41:28,560
releasing my updated uh new book in in

1014
00:41:34,130 --> 00:41:31,440
plain sight in the fall your time so Run

1015
00:41:36,530 --> 00:41:34,140
August September okay

1016
00:41:38,870 --> 00:41:36,540
wow that's awesome looking forward to it

1017
00:41:41,329 --> 00:41:38,880
nice juicy details in there for us

1018
00:41:44,810 --> 00:41:41,339
and if people want to know what I'm up

1019
00:41:48,530 --> 00:41:44,820
to uh every second week Bryce zabel and

1020
00:41:50,089 --> 00:41:48,540
I do the need to know podcast need to

1021
00:41:51,589 --> 00:41:50,099
know dot today

1022
00:41:54,829 --> 00:41:51,599
and uh

1023
00:41:56,089 --> 00:41:54,839
you know we Georgia on issues UAP as

1024
00:41:58,370 --> 00:41:56,099
often as we can

1025
00:42:00,829 --> 00:41:58,380
yeah it's a great show I really love the

1026
00:42:02,690 --> 00:42:00,839
show Ross I think this is a good place

1027
00:42:04,550 --> 00:42:02,700
to end unless there's anything else you

1028
00:42:20,030 --> 00:42:04,560
want to chat about

1029
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:45,370
and the next witness citizen

1030
00:43:14,510 --> 00:42:46,860
thank you

1031
00:43:53,150 --> 00:43:14,520
[Music]

1032
00:43:53,160 --> 00:44:00,530
foreign

1033
00:44:24,950 --> 00:44:10,900
[Music]